Blockchain Recorded Podcast EP14 Transcript 04.04.2022
Host: Nina Cerar, Blockchain Recorded Podcast Host (Twitter: @ninacerar10) Guest: Dr Tali Rezun (Twitter: @talirezun) Guest Bio: Today Guest is Tali Rezun whom I have hosted before on our show. Last time, we talked about his 4thTech project and initiative. This time will be slightly different as I will talk with Tali about the development of Block Labs, his dedication to Web3 R&D and a further dive into on-chain communication privacy. After finishing his doctorate, Tali established Block Labs & 4thTech and less than a year ago co-founded this show. Tali is also a guest lecturer in the Cotrugli MBA program, a Blockchain Adria resident speaker and a UNCEFACT expert.
Tali welcome back to “our” Blockchain Recorded Podcast…I promise to our listeners to be as objective as possible since we are co-founders of this show.:)Tali: Hello, good to be back
Let’s briefly refresh our audience with your path up to today and what brought you to the blockchain Web3 space?Tali: I was always a tech-savvy person technology intrigues me. In 1997 I built the first digital audio and video recording studio, which later evolved into one of the biggest record companies in the Adriatic region. All due to our ability to record and produce digitally, because back in the day, new albums were recorded on analogue tapes, so you could record only one band at a time, but with the digital setup we recorded up to 5 projects a day so we were always first to the market. We were later hammered by the MP3 though, but those were some fun times. In the 2000s, I was focusing on HTML and Google SEO, which later evolved into Online Guerrilla, which is a full-stack online brand exposure agency operating since 2005. In 2010 I co-founded an HR company that we expanded into 6 countries, employing over 1200 people. In 2016, I wanted to find a secure, private and compliant data exchange solution for cross border communication between the offices. We were dealing with sensitive employee data and email was just not an option. You would be amazed by the lack of options available still today. At the time I was introduced to blockchain technology and in a couple of months, I was hooked.
So, digital recording, SEO, cofounding an HR company…an eclectic palette of experiences emanating an entrepreneurship streak. So 2016 was the point where your path to web3 and blockchain started?Tali: Yes, I was hooked by the ideology behind this open, democratic permissionless technology, the idea that you can just start building and deploying without permission, just wow… I’m a doer by nature. When I have an idea I go and execute it. I always hated permissioned systems, where there are boundaries, and issues with permissions…because it blocks creativity and innovation. The web3 tech is amazing, but finding the right implementation that fits is a challenge, I found mine in on-chain communication. After 4 years of development behind our wallet-to-wallet communication technology, a new privacy and security horizon opened with new possibilities that were just not available before. We already did an amazing job securing privacy in dMail and dChat communication compared to the current centralised system, but now we also know what the next challenges are. This knowledge is precious.
Given you have years of tech development behind you, who exactly is “we”? How did you go about setting up your dev team?Tali: I met Denis in November 2017 and Andrej joined us in early 2018. We launched our first wallet-to-wallet data file exchange protocol (dMail) in April 2018 on the Ethereum Mainnet. There were quite some experimental Web3 developments from 2018 to 2020, we developed on-chain data notarisation, an SI-Chain & UNECE pilot protocol that connects the X.509 identity standard with an on-chain wallet. Peter joined in early 2020 and made a great addition to the team. With our Ethereum dMail we managed to accumulate quite a user base until Ethereum TX prices went up to unsustainable levels. There were no Layer 2s at the time, so we searched for an alternative and starter to develop the same solutions on Rust based Edgeware Substrate. We were always tackling the dChat possibility, but until Solana, there was just no alternative. For the dChat that we had in mind, that would be fully on-chain, the blockchains at the time were just too slow. We were already Rust versed from our Edgeware build, so when Solana came it was really a no brainer and the development on the dChat began.So that’s how we started…
You mention dMail, dChat…are these new names, because we previously talked about FOURdx and FOURim?Tali: No, no new names. FOURdx stands for the data exchange protocol, which forms a framework for products such as dMail, while FOURim, stands for the instant messaging protocol that supports the development of products such as dChat.
Can you briefly guide us through the 4thTech releases again?Tali: Just to clarify, 4thTech is an end-users public blockchain platform developed by Block Labs. The evolution reaches back to 2018 when the first beta or 1.0 was deployed on Ethereum MainNet proving our concept of secure, private encrypted wallet-to-wallet data file exchange protocol. The SI-Chain (i.e. Enterprise HashNet based DLT protocol with up to 50k TPS) integration and network support followed in 2020, which is now open to the public as a part of the staging environment. The 2.0 update in 2021 brought data notarisation, upgraded on-chain identity, FOURwaL support for all Chromium and Firefox browsers and added Substrate and Solana blockchain support. The coming 3.0 update in Q4 2022 will be the biggest where finally all the pieces will come together in a unified modern design powered by state of the art code and architecture.
We all use free email and messaging services, in fact, we depend on them to be our main daily communication tools, but clearly, there is something broken here, privacy is being violated, and our data is exploited. What is the problem with the currently centralised communication and social systems?Tali: The internet changed the way we live, it opened the highway to unlimited communication and revolutionized access to information, but it failed greatly in regard to our digital freedom and privacy. Instead of providing a safe environment for online communication, the internet evolved into a system of centralized intermediaries, which enable mass surveillance and data mining to enforce intrusive ad campaigns or sell our data as they see fit. Furthermore, current Web2 services established models that prevent us from owning our data or our identities. The current model is just not ok.
Most people might not understand what is behind online communication platforms and social media today…many whom I’ve spoken to know it, but don’t care, which I find disturbing. What are your thoughts?Tali: It’s quite simple in the end, but most people don’t understand it. Online free communication platforms (social media platforms, email services, chats) and services that we use every day are not quite that free. The data in the form of data files or media that we create is being used to generate significant insights for big technology companies and is being sold to third parties as they generate more profit than the underlying service cost. On the outside, the services are free or low-cost, but we are paying greatly with the loss of privacy. Companies make revenue by advertising products to us. We are just tourists visiting their closed ecosystems, creating valuable content for free and spending valuable time and money at the end. We are tourists that can be banned and locked out of the services at any time for just or unjust reasons without any chance of an appeal. We do not own our identity, we do not own our published data, nor we don’t hold any control over the services access. We can not move our social accounts to other platforms, nor we can not move our social network.That’s the case in the current web2 world.
How does a project like yours differ from the centralised platforms?Tali: There are major differences, we build an open code on decentralised public systems 100% aligned with decentralization ideology. We defend transparency, immutability and permissionless.Clearly, there are also big technological differences between us and centralised communication services, we enable wallet-to-wallet on-chain communication that is E2EE and at its core prevents data mining, data theft, email spoofing, and identity theft. In the case of 4thTech dMail and dChat onboarding requires no phone number or email address. Your wallet represents your ID, and your wallet address serves as your email or chat contact. We don’t want users’ data and we don’t need it.
So how does a centralized platform work?Tali: The case is completely opposite when we are dealing with centralised systems. The centralised messenger services, for example, store all of our data on their centralised servers, which are always vulnerable to SPOF (i.e. single point of failure attacks). In the 4thTech case, messages are temporarily stored on the Solana blockchain, never on any company servers.
So how do we enable full online privacy, data and identity ownership? Is true online private communication even possible?Tali: Yes, it is. We solve it with encryption and decentralization. For 4 years now we have been developing building blocks and tools for future Web3 communication. We are working on several different solutions. Decentralized digital identity, wallet-to-wallet E2EE data exchange and messaging, data notarisation and decentralization of data storage. We already enabled dID, dMail, dChat and dNotary currently running on Ethereum and Solana under the 4thTech brand, available and accessible to all.
Before I ask you details about your tools, how will Web 3 be different compared to Web 2 communication? And with respect to identity ownership?Tali: The main differences between web2 centralised and web3 decentralised platforms are in the model. The web3 solutions are usually based on a pay per transaction model, whereas the centralised web2 platforms are mostly free, but they come with the price of privacy, identity and ownership loss. In web2 ecosystems we do not own our identity, we do not own our published data, nor we don’t hold any control over the services access. There are also big technological differences between us and centralised communication services. In the case of 4thTech we enable wallet-to-wallet on-chain communication that is E2EE and at its core prevents data mining, data theft, email spoofing, and identity theft. In the case of 4thTech dMain and dChat onboarding requires no phone number, email address. Your wallet represents your ID, and your wallet address serves as your email or chat contact.
Ok, so anyone can already start sending dMails? What does a user need to know and do? Even for someone who is new to the crypto wallet concept…Tali: Yes, only the wallet is needed, in our case, we had to develop a unique non-custodial multi-chain wallet that supports wallet-to-wallet data exchange. Users set up their wallets in any Chromium or Mozilla browser, log in to the UI and they are good to go. Naturally, some gas is needed to power the blockchain transactions. This depends on the chosen chain. There is also a white label available for DAOs or other Web3 projects…
When I’m using my email, my email username is usually my address. How does this work in the case of decentralised mail?Tali: Basically, your dMail address is your wallet account. You can choose between Ethereum, Edgeware or Solana. You send your wallet account address to your friends, who can then send you a dMail or a message.
So it works similarly with messages?Tali: Yes, for now, dChat is available only on Solana, you exchange your Solana address with friends and start chatting. One message, one transaction.
As I understand, the goal here is to enable complete protection and privacy in online communication, whether from service providers, competitors or hackers in general. To what extent does your approach solve online privacy in communication including data mining and data theft issues?Tali: Yes, I think that we are 90% there, let me explain.To achieve data exchange between wallets there are several factors to consider. First, what to put on-chain and what to put off-chain. Second, which chain do we use that will offer the best possible decentralization providing security and thirdly, how do we handle temporary storage for data or media files in the form of attachments that are exchanged between users like in the normal email or chat.In the case of dMail, we develop two approaches, the GDPR compliant approach with temporary centralised storage and a Web3 approach with decentralized storage.To solve the matter of the GDPR and be compliant within the EU, the dMail protocol does not store any personal data on the blockchain. The data is encrypted and temporarily stored off-chain. The protocol records links to encrypted files and hashes of the encrypted content on the blockchain. So basically blockchain is used to exchange access to encrypted off-chain content in the form of data and media file attachments. Even though we temporarily store exchange data, we can not read it, or manipulate it, it is end-to-end encrypted accessible only to the user with his or her private key. It’s not a perfect solution but at least a first step.We are also working on a Web3 dMail attachment data storage approach, where the exchanged data and media files would be stored on decentralized storage temporarily or permanently, accessible only to the user with his or her private key. I think that this will be a long term solution.So this was the case for the dMail, where we are also dealing with bigger data files in the form of photos, videos or other sorts of data files that are being exchanged via email.
Are you familiar with how Proton mail deals with security and privacy? People are increasingly searching for better email options than gmail for example and Protonmail appears to be one of them. Are you familiar with their tech? Does it come down to blockchain as the main differentiator?Tali: Yes, Proton mail was concepted before the web3 ERA. It was an alternative to ad-based email systems based on privacy and secure communication. In a lot of ways it can be compared to our dMail solution, we both use E2EE and both are open source. As they have been on the market for many years now, they offer better onboarding and can act more native to non-crypto users. 4thTech dMail on the other hand can come naturally to Crypto users as communication is processed between wallets and onboarding can be quite challenging for a non-Crypto user. Despite ProtonMail’s privacy and security features, the main difference still resides in decentralization. 4thTech dMail bases its transaction, privacy and security on decentralised blockchains, whether ProtonMail still relies on secure centralised servers.
OK, now dChat…Tali: Our dChat protocol is 100% privacy and security-focused so everything is on-chain, and nothing is stored off-chain. Messages in the form of a transaction are E2EE and exchanged between Solana wallets practically in real-time. Nothing is stored on company servers. Currently, we don’t support data file exchange within the dChat itself, but we will enable this option when we launch the decentralized storage service. The users can currently send dMails using Ethereum, Edgeware or Solana and chat using Solana where the dChat is deployed. So in the case of dMail the user chooses between expensive but highly secure and decentralized Ethereum or low-cost but less secure Solana blockchain.
What about attack scenarios, what could be on the line here? We know what hackers are after in financial services, so I imagine that in your case they could go after privacy?Tali: It’s important to point out here that we are not a Defi project. In our case, smart contract security affects privacy in communication and not assets themselves. Communication privacy and security are the centres of our solution. The dMail and dChat architecture were built in such a way to prevent security breaches and explorations, focusing on preventing data tampering.In the case of dMail, the possible vulnerability of a smart contract would be the hacking of exchange data files and sender identity theft, so the protocol was designed to permit changing parameters of received dMails only to the receiver. The sender identity theft is not possible, due to validation of the sent transaction. In the case of dChat, the possible vulnerability of smart contracts would be the changing of existing messages and sender identity theft, so the protocol was designed in a way to permit the message exchange only to conversation users.
There is a production version available on your 4thtech website, more specifically on “app.4thtech.io” (we’ll add this to our show notes) with multi-chain support. Which network do users choose the most?Tali: There is a production version live supporting Ethereum, Tolar, Edgeware and Solana public chains. Most used are Ethereum and Solana, chosen by two completely different users. The Ethereum users are willing to pay high transaction fees to benefit from Ethereum’s decentralization and security, while Solana users are not so decentralization sensitive and rather pay minimum transaction fees in cents but still use the service. We are planning to add Layer 2 support, so the Ethereum users can choose to still benefit from Ethereum’s security, but pay 100 times less in transaction fees. This is still rather an open issue as Layer 2s are evolving at light speed and we are still waiting to see what would be the most viable option…whether we go with Arbitrum or some rollup.
This brings us to the cost…how are you going about it?Tali: We calculated that the average person spends approximately 100 messages per day, depending on the message length the daily cost would be between 3 and 5 cents of a dollar. This is the case for the dChat on the Solana blockchain, if we are talking about sending dMail using Ethereum Layer1, the transaction cost could be up to 60 dollars, If Solana is used for sending dMails the cost is negligible. So here Ethereum Layer 2 comes in handy, when integrated it could lower the dMail transaction cost to under 1 dollar. Let me state here that we are still charging no fees, the users are paying only for the network transaction cost.
dMail and dChat both have a strong social component. We all use emails and messages to communicate, voice calls for quick conversations are less used:) Video calls are a different story. As far as I know, we still use emails for more professional communication, while chats are social communication or less formal communication…. I’m sure that there are many dApps that need to add a social layer in the form of an on-chain chat, have you considered this?Tali: Yes, Nina, you are correct. With massive communities emerging surrounding popular DeFi, NFT, Gaming and DAO platforms, the need for social communication is increasing. Messaging is on the top of the list in regards to social interaction, we type faster than we think:). But in the decentralized ecosystem, you need a decentralized communication solution. We think of ourselves as Web3 communication framework builders. We have created a suite of building blocks, a tool kit that every Web3 organisation or DAO can use. We are developing an SDK software development kit that will enable dMail and dChat integration. 4thTech already enables UI white-label dMail & dChat integration, so partner projects can enable social communication within their communities. Furthermore, 4thTech is developing UI white-label staking solutions that empower ERC20 based token standards to be used as incentive drivers within the white-label UI. Partner projects will be able to use their own native tokens to enable additional features and community incentives.
These are some strong user use cases that we went through, we will include all the links into the show notes + we will include the links to dMail and dChat manuals. Let’s talk more about Block Labs. The ecosystem structure seems quite complex with so many solutions, can we dive deeper here? But first, what is Block Labs all about?Tali: We strongly believe in:· Online privacy is a fundamental right of every person.· Secure online exchange of data available to all· Open-source software as it brings democratization and contributes to the public good· Users should be able to own their dataHorizontally, Block Labs expands to service end-users with its 4thTech platform and enterprises on the other side. Vertically we expand into products, clients, protocols and modules.· Products being dID, dMail, dChat, dNotary· Clients being 4thTech UI, Wallet add-on, white-label UIs· To accompany all that, we developed several modules such as tokenization and staking.We are also working on Enterprise specific solutions such as X.509 digital identity certificate interoperability.
Can you explain the X.509 part? We’ve historically talked about it in a round table discussion last year, but let’s revisit.Tali: Yes, the X.509 digital certificate standard is widely supported across Europe and the world. When using decentralised blockchain technology, the organisations need to be able to identify and verify the recipients of the sent data or assets. Block Labs enables the connection of the off-chain X.509 digital identity certificate with the on-chain dID FOURwaL address. The connection process is executed off-chain and managed by the organisation admin, so it can comply with existing online regulations.
What about data notarisation, is it comparable to data verification?Tali: Our protocol uses blockchain transaction file checksum to check for potential data changes during the wallet to wallet dMail data file exchange. If one byte of the exchanged data changes, the checksum changes and invalidates the transmission. The protocol acts as a dNotary, bypassing notary intermediates and enabling automatic data source verification and time-stamp.
What are the main notarisation parts? Can your dNotary protocol replace traditional physical notaries? For example, I just had to notarize something for an embassy visit, a statement from my husband — was such a pain with time, cost, finding a physical notary, getting there….could this dNotary protocol be part of our future here despite already having eNotaries in some countries?Tali: If we are talking about the core notarisation part then yes. First, there is the identity part when you visit the physical notary you must ID yourself, we accomplish that with an established on-chain identity, furthermore the established on-chain identity can be linked to an off-chain X.509 digital identity. The second part is the time stamp, which is recorded with the execution of the blockchain transaction and the last part is the transfer verification, the originality of the exchanged data, which is achieved with the file checksum sourced from the transaction hash itself. If all three requirements are met, we can confirm the data notarisation as valid and compliant.
Sounds like a practical solution to me. I’m not an expert in the current notary trajectory, but I do know there are eNotary remote systems out there, meaning digital notaries with electronic signing and so forth…. The US for example started with remote eNotaries around 2012 in certain states. How is your version different from the eNotary remote systems out there today?…is this again a centralized vs. decentralized notion?Tali: Our dNotary leverages the power of blockchain to facilitate source and time confirmation for any data files exchanged within the 4thTech ecosystem. We use transaction checksum to check for potential data changes during the dMail data exchange. If one byte of the exchanged data changes, the checksum changes and invalidates the transmission. If we dive in deeper, there are actually several checksums calculated and stored to assure integrity. Checksum stored on the blockchain is validating JSON metadata which includes all the details of the transaction. If the checksum of the JSON metadata is validated then the service is also checking the integrity of the digital file(s) within the transaction. If the validation of the digital file(s) is confirmed then the receiver can download data files with the confidence that no one has manipulated them. Our dNotary system is based on decentralization.
Let’s shift. Enterprise web3 adoption. Are we there yet?Tali: We can say that blockchain has been acknowledged and recognised also in the mainstream enterprise sector. The tech has such unique features that can not be overlooked. I have read the PWC report from last year, which states that blockchain has the potential to boost global domestic product (i.e. GDP) by 1.76 trillion dollars over the next decade and hit the mainstream by 2030. PwC report also points out that some 60% of CEOs are placing digital transformations among their top three priorities and that organisations have recognised the value of online trust and cybersecurity between their business partners and customers.
Sure…and software engineers are in demand.:) Pays off to be one these days. How are you sought out, do companies approach you directly?Tali: We have been getting some interesting requests for the adoption on different enterprise levels. The main issues are security and privacy in online communication. We had an interesting case not so long ago of an automotive company that wants to manage their off-factory production with tokenization, so the subcontractors would be paid in real-time as the parts are being made. We are solving their case by providing a white-label wallet, UI and tailored made tokenization module.So I can say yes to your previous question, the enterprise adoption is here, but the adoption is executed mostly on more simple use cases.
So if I understand, Block labs offer stand-alone solutions such as dID, dMail, dChat, dNotary…do you do any taylor made protocols?Tali: Yes, we enable end-users to use our base products, the wallet, dID, dMail, dChat, dNotary using public immutable blockchains, while at the same time we offer Enterprises the web3 communication toolkit which can be adopted out of the box or tailored for specific use cases on public or private chains . In the end, both user groups benefit from online communication privacy and protect themselves from data mining and identity or data theft.
I imagine that onboarding is always the hardest. People have a hard time embracing the concepts of Web3 and also the unknowns that it will bring. There are wallets, private keys, tokens.. What are you doing to bridge this gap?Tali: We are approaching this from different sides. First, we have enabled staging. Staging clones the production environment and enables individuals or organisations to test drive the solutions before onboarding. It serves as a free pilot platform and is open to the public. Users can use dMail or dChat with testnet tokens to replicate the experience. We are currently working on a white-label dMail and dChat adoption campaign. Partner announcements have been already made with Universe Finance and Spartan Protocol and I can reveal that we are talking with 10 other interesting projects.
We already mentioned white-label adoption possibility for DAOs and other web3 projects, can you explain more in detail, how does this work in practice?Tali: Ok, so we are executing white-label deployments on the basis of the partner project community volume and evaluation. After establishing contact, finding the right adoption model and sorting all the design details the implementation should be done in 72 hours. The UI wallet and platform design is made exclusively for white-label solutions and is merged with the partner brand by colour customization, and brand adjustments.Our White-label solutions:· Enable community Web3 communication layer for web3 projects· Enable communication security and privacy with E2EE & decentralization· Can add utility to partner project native token (access, community incentives…)· Can secure additional fee revenue for the partner platform· Have fast time to market with activation possible in a couple of days· Are multi-chain: Ethereum & Solana out of the box, with the option to support all Ethereum & Polkadot based networks· Support tokenization: dMail & dChat ETH or SOL based transactions· Enable staking: UI-platform incentive-based protocol used to enable project native Ethereum based token integrationThere are three main white-label Components· UI-wallet: Chromium & Mozilla based add-on with custom logo & colours integration· UI-platform: Web-based customised client· Products: dID, dMail, dChat & dNotaryTo enable multi-chain adoption and bridge the gap between cross-chain deployed protocols, a unique wallet solution had to be developed. With a single purpose, the non-custodial wallet framework (i.e. FOURwaL) serves as a multi-blockchain gateway, a unique tool for white-label UI-platform access. It enables partner projects to adopt our multi-chain communication solutions (i.e. dID, dMail, dChat, dNotary) and bridge a gap between Ethereum, Polkadot and Solana based networks, while still having the option to include their native Ethereum (i.e. ERC20, BEP20, POS) based tokens as an incentive to enable additional feature access or transaction fee discounts.The FOURwaL wallet framework supports all Chromium & Mozilla based browsers and provides a secure way to connect to dMail & dChat. Onboarding requires no email or phone numberThe second white-label component, the UI platform, serves as an onboarding hub accessed by the user via a Google Chrome or Mozilla Firefox web browser with an installed wallet add-on. It connects and hosts all the deployed products, protocols and services in one ecosystem, giving the user all in one access.
As far I can comprehend, you have developed a suite of dApps, a toolkit that enables end-users, DAOs, Web3 projects and regulated enterprises to use private, secure dMail and dChat accompanied by on-chain notarisation and digital identity that can be connected to off-chain identity by using encryption and decentralization on public or private blockchains. Did I phrase this right? Did I forget something…Tali: Yes, you phrase it perfectly. There are a number of solutions that had to be developed in parallel, such as staging environment, staking protocol and so on, but you manage to include all the relevant ones.
I can not go, without touching on the sheer size of your documentation, the wiki is just never-ending, there are papers, articles, all systematic and consistent…Tali: We take pride in our docs. I think that the tech that is being innovated here, needs a good strong written framework. We approached this by creating two types of content. We use Medium to publish articles focused more on less tech-savvy readers. We try to include tech clarifications, manuals, notes… On the other hand, we are years in the development of our wiki pages, which are more focused on developers. We also tackled a couple of research papers, all based on web3 communication.
So where to next, your roadmap is always full, where do you find the strength to continue all these years?Tali: Yes, we have been here a long time, we sometimes get some strange questions from the community, why do you keep developing? I think to myself when we stop developing and innovating we are giving up, because this space is undiscovered, we barely scratched the surface. The fundamental values of decentralization are just too important for the world not to be explored. So this is where I find the strength to continue.Currently, we are working on UI-platform 3.0 update. Let me just say that the interface will be amazing. We have these design partners from Poland, they are called the DOF team, they did the 4thtech.io design, also all the news templates are theirs, including all the amazing videos. They have really stepped up our game. I think that the platform 3.0 design will be the next level in web3 design and functionalities.So the 3.0 update will overall bring design unification and staking that will enable dMail & dMail TX discount activation and feature right to access.Also, as part of the 3.0 update, the platform front-end and back-end will be separated to achieve the first steps toward platform decentralization and enable front-end integration for other partner projects. I believe that the social layer is becoming a thing in NFTs, Blockchain Gaming and Defi so we must enable all possibilities for other projects to adapt our tech. With the front-end and back-end platform, separation partner projects will be able to integrate our tech directly to their UIs., which is a significant integration upgrade compared to white-label solutions.We are also a part of a partner dChat project that will blow your mind. It’s using our tech but adding a bunch of killer features not seen by now in the web3 world. That’s all I can reveal.
How can people reach you to see what you are up to and find your work?Tali: They can DM me on Twitter (@talirezun), or send me a dMail (Solana: FSrwomoa5xzmGXXAFTWz2VbbiTAQfV1wEHkobLJzhD19). We just launched 4thTech Discord for those who wish to be involved and join the community.
We will include Tali’s Solana dMail & dChat wallet address in the show notes, including the link to dMail & dChat user manual, so if you wish to chat with Tali, you can learn how to use this new technology. Tali, what can I say, this has been amazing, what an upgrade from last time. My learning curve with you is steep and I’m not just saying that as your podcast co-founder.:):)Tali: Thanks Nina, my pleasure as always and thanks for having me on.
Show notes:https://blockchainrecorded.com/privacy-security-in-on-line-communication-web3-talk-with-dr-tali-rezun-head-of-block-labs/ https://4thtech.io/ https://blocklabs.technology/ https://wiki.4thtech.io/ https://4thtech.io/white-label/ https://wiki.4thtech.io/guide/#user-guide-2-dmail https://wiki.4thtech.io/guide/#user-guide-3-dchat
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